Sinwar turned out to be right. Israel is a rabid attack dog that will self-destruct at every opportunity, dragging all its allies along with it until it runs out of allies to destroy. Then it becomes a small poor weak colony which has no means to sustain itself.
Fake palestinians supporters downvoting this
Liberal Zionists and Islamophobes are mad
100% they don’t even open the article
It’s not even hard to verify
Is the whole article not a bit of a straw man, the only people I have heard claiming Israel created Hamas are those who have misinterpreted the often muddy history of this conflict. Given Israel’s past actions accusations like this are not unfounded.
Based on the evidence available it is likely that Israel assisted Hamas in its early days to form an Islamic counterweight to the secular PLO in the age old divide and conquer strategy. The article itself states;
To acknowledge that Israel exploited “the existence of Hamas to further divide the Palestinians and facilitated control over them, is one thing.”
“To claim that Israel invented or created Hamas is totally another, if absurd, thing,” Hroub said.
It is clear that the Israeli government prefers their opposition to be what they can describe as “Muslim extremists” rather than a secular organisation. Israel’s assistance to a nascent Hamas went hand in hand with their and USA’s manufactured mass media islamophobia indoctrination.
This article focuses mostly on the disagreements between the PLO and Hamas while glossing over Yitzhak Segev’s admissions to Shipler. There is a fascinating account out there by David Shipler of the Israeli governments attempts to stop the articles publication after they found out about Sergevs admissions.
There is nothing than enter and exit palestine without Israel approval. For weird reason, allow funds to enter gaza makes hamas an israeli tool but doing the same thing to the PA doesn’t.
Fatah refused to accept hamas winning the election in Gaza. The PA is currently doing nothing about the settlers but act like a second security force for Israel while despite hamas attrocities , they are the one responding to israel expending colonies, to the torture and raping on palestinians prisoners and west bankers
Edit : I would also known what the point exactly of saying israel used Hamas to sabotage the PLO. How can it be used to help palestinians today. If it was a good faith argument , people would mention that the plo fall for it
My point has nothing to do with the PA and is not an assessment or comparison between the PA and Hamas and who is doing the more effective work today. I believe Israel has been committing a slow genocide in Palestine ever since 1948 that has recently turned into an outright in your face genocide. Israel is a genocidal apartheid settler colonial ethnostate. I am not anti Hamas and understand their position that armed conflict is their only choice against total destruction.
I would also known what the point exactly of saying israel used Hamas to sabotage the PLO
The point of saying it is to show that Israel funded a group of religious extremists to destroy Yasser Arafat’s PLOs progress towards peace and a two state solution.
Israel found it difficult to demonise the secular PLO to Western audiences. Muslims are a much easier enemy to forment in western minds. Israel has been one of the major international forces driving islamophobia in western minds, manufacturing consent for the middle eastern forever wars the west has been in for the last few decades (ironic considering the Israelis love screaming “antisemitism” over the slightest perceived slight ).
How can it be used to help palestinians today.
By understanding how Israel has been manufacturing consent in the consent to view Muslims as lesser and lower the Western audiences sympathy when it comes to Israel’s genocide of Arabic and now Iranian people. It is hard to argue that Israel has not been success in its task when watching the framing of this conflict in western media.
If it was a good faith argument , people would mention that the plo fall for it
This is not necessary for it to be a good faith argument, I struggle to comprehend your line of thought here?
The PLO didn’t fall for anything either, they called out Israel’s actions at the time but had little power to actually do anything about it as they didn’t control the media narrative. This is still irrelevant to whether or not the argument is in good faith or not.
The point of saying it is to show that Israel funded a group of religious extremists to destroy Yasser Arafat’s PLOs progress towards peace and a two state solution.
Israel did not fund Hamas. Qatar send funds to the Hamas goverment. Israel allowed the fund to pass just like they allow fund and goods to pass in the west bank.
The statement make it looks like Hamas had no legitimate concerns about the oslo accords. They was proves to be right. During the talks israel increased settlements. Rabin did not agree to a full independent palestinians state with all it’s rights and all the territories sized in 67. Rsbin used the term less than a state. The intention is exactly what is currently implemented in the west bank
By not fully recognizing Hamas winning the election Fatah part of the plo fell for it. Both hamas and the plo also dhare the same responsability for the violence between them
Israel found it difficult to demonise the secular PLO to Western audiences.
It was never difficult for israel to demonize the plo and the plo far less secular than you think
The PLO didn’t fall for anything either, they called out Israel’s actions at the time but had little power to actually do anything about it as they didn’t control the media narrative. This is still irrelevant to whether or not the argument is in good faith or not.
Isrsel never stopped stealing more land , arming and defending settlers with the PA collaboration.
What is irelevant is the narative that hamas is only israel’s tool. Thr relevant part is that the PA is collaborating with Israel knowing very well. At some point israel could annex the west bank
Israel did not fund Hamas. Qatar send funds to the Hamas goverment.
I am not talking about this funding, I am speaking about their early funding, back before they were even called Hamas. Yitzek Segev, former Israeli general and military governor of Gaza in the early 1980s admitted as much in an interview with the New York Times.
You seem obsessed with defending Hamas’s autonomy to the point where you are blinded to Israel’s larger game plan. The fact that Israel provided funding to Hamas in its early days does not delegitimise Hamas as an organisation.
Mujama al-Islamiya and hamas are two different organizations funded by the same person. There is no evidence that the funds dedicated to Mujama was used for hamas. Israel also financed secular groups like Village Leagues.
The fact is that certian cunning people want you to believe that Hamas is not a resistance group that retaliate for israel colonial policies and war crimes. They want you to believe it is a simple tool for Israel. You are falling into israel game. I want the plo to back to it’s root as a real liberation . Israel has been breaching the oslo accords for decades. Doing slow genocide in the west bank
You don’t seem to understand that Hamas can be both an indigenous resistance group retaliating against Israel and financed by Israel in its early years as a religious counterbalance to the secular PLO.
You also don’t seem to understand how it is beneficial to Israel to be fighting a group like Hamas over the PLO in how Israel presents this conflict to the media and the world. Israel can point at Hamas and say “look at these Muslim extremists, you can’t negotiate with them. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, looks what Hamas do to women and gays! This war is to do with religion, the Muslims always want to destroy the Jews.” This narrative was not possible against the PLO, if you can’t see how this situation favours Israel when selling the story to the Western audiences and how Israel much prefers it this way you are hopelessly myopic.
Funny, I read the text and I’m even more convinced that the Israeli far right benefited from the existence of Hamas (and helped it succeed) and Hamas should never be allowed to hold power vs a secular liberation option.
It basically says that in the article…
To acknowledge that Israel exploited “the existence of Hamas to further divide the Palestinians and facilitated control over them, is one thing.”
“To claim that Israel invented or created Hamas is totally another, if absurd, thing,” Hroub said.
Hamas should never be allowed to hold power vs a secular liberation option
Or, the liberation movement doesn’t need to be perfect to warrant our support, and the Palestinian people will figure out what works best for themselves.
We have secular governments in the west and there are still endless issues with racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia and so on.
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Are you blaming the Palestinian resistance for not magically defeating Israel?
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I’m asking because I said:
the Palestinian people will figure out what works best for themselves.
You then said:
Clearly they figured that out so much that they are on the verge of extinction. Well played /s
I hope you can see why I read you that way. But I asked to confirm because I could be misunderstanding you. If I was wrong then simply say that and explain what you actually meant.
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I still don’t understand your point, because the context is still that they’re being genocided and resisting.
Any particular reason or are we free-vibing here?
Which secular liberation group are you talking about? Fact is hamas is the strongest liberation group that collaborated with secular groups retaliating for demolition compaigns in the west bank and settler terrorism in the west bank.
While hamas is always liberating fatah members, the pa refuse to push for liberation of Barghouthi a fatah members with the most support by palestinians
Your trashy country called france should ask israel the settler colonial power to disarm and should stop selling weapons to the terrorist state of Israel. Who are you to tell palestinians that they should nevet allow hamas to participate in elections?
