Or vice versa, etc. with some caveats (see below). As per the Wikipedia article on gender fluidity:
A genderfluid person may fluctuate among different gender expressions over their lifetime, or express multiple aspects of various gender markers simultaneously.
As I understand it, these gender markers might not be the same as sexual characteristics. For example, a person with feminine clothing and a penis could be a trans woman or femboy depending on what traits they consider defining of their gender, and might be intersex or not. Not to mention non-committal states like gender questioning and exploration, or crossdressing for entertainment or a Gerudo Town visit. They can find terms like “nonbinary” and “genderfluid” derogatory, especially if they encompass a trait they are indifferent to, dysphoric or sensitive about.
Am I wrong about something here?
I’m not sure I understand your statement but I think you may be midunderstanding some terminology.
First, sexual characteristics do not define gender. It doesn’t matter what anyone has in their pants or under their shirt. (Sounds like you mostly get this one)
Second, genderfluid is a gender identity on its own. It is not “non-committal”, “exploring” or “questioning” although someone who identifies as that may be any of those things. But generally, if someone says they’re genderfluid, they mean their gender identity (how they feel) fluctuates. They could feel 100% masculine one day and 100% feminine another day, or anywhere in between. Trust that they are in tune with their own identity.
Third, gender identity =/= gender expression. Someone could identify as genderfluid and present in a traditionally masculine way every single day. That doesn’t negate their gender identity, and that doesn’t give anyone the right to question them.
Going back to your title, I mean… Yes, someone could be wearing a skirt and a masculine shirt and be genderfluid. But they could also be cis or trans or a different non-binary identity. Again, gender expression (clothes/makeup) doesn’t define gender identity. Same goes if you meant that they have both boobs and a penis. Sexual characteristics don’t define gender identity.
I do differentiate between genderfluid and questioning, and only call the latter “non-committal” (that distinction is made in the next sentence in the Wikipedia article), although I guess mentioning it next to fun crossdressing could play down the exploration process. And I did make the distinction between biological (sexual) characteristics, gender expression and gender identity (which is usually based on some or all gender characteristics).
I suppose I didn’t make myself clear enough: it’s up to people to select their gender identity based on their feeling, and also a separate gender expression (although they tend to correlate), regardless of biological characteristics. What’s new to me is that the “genderfluid” label can refer to gender expression varying across the body, not just in time. Yes, the title is a bit reductive and I guess it might be incorrectly interpreted as one implying the other, hence the explanation (which only lists a couple examples of common identities of feminine-looking people with penises). Not to mention, terms are evolving: “bisexual” used to be a synonym of “hermaphroditic”.
By the way, use the forward slash for an ASCII ≠ (=/=), a single backslash gets hidden by most Markdown interpreters
I think there are no good, solid answers, and as long as you have empathy and are not intentionally getting things wrong, I think you’re fine. However, some people get hung up on terms more than others, depending on their life experiences.
I know a trans man, and he says it’s fine if we call him by his deadname or his old pronouns. I know it’s not, but he’s saying because we knew him then, it’s forgivable. I personally could never. I have slipped, but I always catch myself, and I haven’t slipped in a while. I’m older, I’m trying to get with the times. Not that trans people are exactly new, but acceptance of them is, and it should have been there all along.
I read something on Lemmy (not sure what instance/comm) and they said that being female (trans or cis) is defined by presentation of feminine traits, not masculine ones, and vice versa. I think if we game that statement out to its logical conclusion, then everyone is a little genderfluid as most of us do things that are feminine or masculine, but we don’t identify as such, and as self-determination is also important, it’s important to respect a person’s chosen pronouns and/or labels.
There was a debate in another place on Lemmy over a user’s pronouns being capitalised. Now here I can see some friction: in religion, a god’s pronouns are also capitalised, so if someone is religious, that could be an issue. However, most of us had no problem capitalising pronouns. The issue I had was that if you slipped and forgot, they said you were anti-trans (not They as in the person, but the people who made the thread). I guess they were trying to cover their bases and asses, but I felt like that was a bridge too far. Still, I’m pretty sure I capitalised everything correctly.
So, it seems there are a lot of terms, a lot of pronouns, a lot of rules, and some of them seem like they contradict one another. But one rule I like to keep coming back to is Xbox’s take on the golden rule. That is, treat others, not how you want to be treated (that being the golden rule), but how they want to be treated. We have a pronouns field on Lemmy, so it’s easy to see what to call a person. If they don’t specify, I refer to them by username, or OP/TC (TC is a lesser used term from forums, it means Topic Creator… OP could be a different person if you were in a comment chain and you were referring to the person who replied to the TC but started a tangent conversation… but mostly the two are interchangeable).
TL;DR: Find what works for the person you’re talking to and go from there. And if they correct you on something, don’t take it personally, because they’ve chosen to not take what they perceived as a slight, and took it instead as a chance to correct you to keep the conversation civil. Which often begs the question of conservative and older folks (the latter does include my generation), is it too much sometimes? Well, if you meet someone from another country, there are often rules you have to follow to not dishonour their culture, and you do it — it’s the same with anyone. That is, if you wish to be seen as a person who is respectful of others. If not… well… do your thing, I guess. But those who are LGBTQ+ have struggles and they don’t want others to have any more than they need to, and allies (of which I include myself) try to be mindful of the needs of the individual.
Yes, I agree.
TL;DR: Labels are self-assigned and should be, and forced (un)labeling is not acceptable. However, this does not mean they are meaningless − after all, pride flags are based on them − so it makes sense to know what people tend to mean when they assume a specific queer identity, and know how to pick words to describe one’s own. Prying into the specifics of a person’s label should be governed by social conventions, much like discussion about sexual attraction, kinks or genitals.
